Frank LarRosa
2003-08-05 18:01:30 UTC
Xlater,Sad WOlf, e tutti nel NG
ho trovato e letto questo NG il 3d "Scorbuto e limoni: una storia
istruttiva", quasi per caso, e devo dire che e' interessante.
Permettemi un paio di osservazioni:
Xlater a grandi linee capisco la tua tesi, ma non posso condividerla,
concordo piu' con Sad Wolf e mi spiego:
(Magari voi siete li' che dite: mo' questo chi cavolo e' e da dove
spunta, questa era una conversazione 'semiprivata' ...)
Vabbe' e' la natura di Internet, che ci potete fare ...
Si, le idee e l'informazione oggi viaggiano a velocita' di rete
globale. E questo, come dice Sad Wolf, permette non solo alle perle di
viaggiare ma anche ai proverbiali porci e bufale. (Xlater , ovviamente
NON mi riferisco a te, sia chiaro.)
Io vivo da 14 anni negli USA, e qui letteralmente ogni settimana esce
la dieta, lo studio, la ricerca di turno. Ogni altra settimana si
contraddicono. Il consumatore americano e' completamente confuso,
mangia spazzatura comunque, e di tanto in tanto si rifugia in diete e
stili nutrizionali a dir poco paraddossali.
Cultura scientificha dell' Americano medio : 0.
In Italia al confronto siamo almeno a 85, su una scala 0-100.
Tutti ci campano. L' industria della nutrizione e medicina
alternativa, le case editrici sguazzano nei soldi, pesudo dottori si
fanno milionari ( in $$$) sulla pelle dei poveretti che non ci
capiscono piu' un fico secco.
La medicina ufficiale, non la tocca nessuno, orami e' insediata ed e'
tranquilla.
( Il discorso sulla sanita; americana medievale, per cortesia lo
facciamo un' altra volta che mi fa bollire il sangue. )
NESSUNO ha le PALLE quadre di dire alla gente la verita' : mangiate di
meno e muovetevi di piu'. E basta con le cioccolatine 10 volte al
giorno, ed alla Coca Cola ghiacciata 1/2 litro come COLAZIONE !!, e le
patatine ricoperte di formaggio fuso per pranzo. No, questo nessuno lo
dice (chiaramente)
Io ho avuto un' esperienza diretta nella famiglia di mia moglie.
Sua zia, per eattezza. La storia riportata qui sotto, e' vera ed
autentica in tutti in particolari.
Io stesso ho aiutato "Clint" a postare il mesaggio due anni fa. E'
TUTTO VERO. E la situazione non e' migliorata di un millimetro.
Idee e fantasie dietetiche/alimentari che si propagano incontrollate,
SONO dannose. La maggioranza di queste "nuove idee" che circolano sono
solo fantasie che non stanno ne' in cielo ne' in terra.
Io ho una nipotina americana che di 7 anni che e' sorda all'80%
perche' i genitori (papa' chiropratico) non credono nella medicina
ufficiale, dottori o antibiotici. Molto meglio un bicchiere di acqua
(LETTERALMENTE) che andare dal medico quando Rebecca, a sei mesi di
eta' ha avuto infezione delle vie respiratorie per 90 giorni
Oppue quando in 8 mesi di vita e' aumentata di solo un chilo di peso
dalla nascita.
La piccola non ha visto un medico fino all' eta' di 4 anni, quando si
sono accorti che be, .. per sentirci, forse non ci sente proprio
troopo bene....
Xlater, io alle follie che ho visto e sentito in 14 anni, perferisco
sempre la medicina ufficiale, assieme a una buoma dose di buon senso e
cultura scientifica di base.
Leggete, alcuni dettagli sono stati omessi, in quanto troppo
incredibili.
--------------------posted 2001-09-13 10:27:02 PST ------------
I need some help (or suggestions, or guidance, ANYTHING), on how to
deal with a specific family situation that is arising and is involving
my in-laws, my wife and my children.
Mary and John are my in-laws. John, now 52 years of age, discovered
one year ago that he has an incurable chronic disease.
Since that discovery, Mary, his wife, (my mother in law) has leaped
into alternative medicine, in an attempt to heal him. Now her logic,
discerning capacity and a lot of her money are gone.
I need to add at this point, that currently we live WITH my in-laws
and for the next year or so, there is almost no way the situation is
going to change anytime soon.)
Mary, my mother-in-law, first began her adventure in alternative
medicine with Dr. Norman W. Walker and his book "Colon Health Key to
Vibrant Life" advocating weekly if not daily colonics.
After that it was the turn of Dr. Wallace and his "Dead Doctors don't
lie" audio tape. Now it is Dr. Lorraine Day and her "cure all" video
tapes. Then came the "Hallelujah Diet" Recently she just started to
listen to another audio tape about "Germs do not cause any disease"
from another quack that I have yet to identify.
Personally, I cannot stand even to be in the same room when she and my
wife are listening to these tapes.
Overall, here is what she believes:
1) You just got to do frequent "colonics" aka enemas to "detoxify"
yourself
2) Drinking LOTS of water cures cancer and MOST disease
3) Doctors and modern medicine has not cured ANY disease EVER, not
even ONE
4) Milk and sugar cause AIDS and most of the disease we currently
know
5) Cooked food has ZERO nutritional value, no proteins, nothing,
nada, empty food
6) Only raw foods have nutritional values and have the "enzymes of
life" ( ?? )
7) Veggie and raw food diet cure AIDS and cancer and most of disease
as we know it
8) Fever in kids is not dangerous and one should not ever try to give
Motrin or Advil to lower fever in a child.
9) You need the high fever so it will kill all the bad germs and
viruses in you body (!!)
10) The so called fever-induced seizures are in reality always
provoked by doctors mistakes at the hospital.
11) Dialyses can be avoided by following a regime of mineral and
vitamins supplements
12) Germs/bacterias and viruses NEVER cause ANY disease.
13) The disease is INSIDE us and we start it by what we eat.
14) 25% of American couples are infertile because they do not take
minerals in their diet...
15) Kids under the age of ten are dying of heart attacks all over
America because of lack of minerals
This list is just the beginning ... Trust me people this is not a
joke.
Needless to say most of this material lack any reference list, names,
studies or any background information of sort You see, every time I
hear any of the crap above, my stomach turns.
Every time I attempt, with some solid data on hand, to debunk some of
this physco-health-terror, I am told that : "Maybe they know something
you and the doctors don't know. And: "you know, the doctors and the
pharmaceutical companies do not want people to know how to get
healthy"
No comment.
All these is coupled with a change in diet that involves the entire
family, and that is something I have to agree on. Right now we are
going toward a more vegetarian style of eating habits, and I need to
say that I do not have anything against it and wholeheartedly agree
with the need to have good healty meals, frequent
exercise and generally speaking, stay healthy and try to pass these
same habits to our kids.
(Personally I draw the line on the barely green powder, it is just
awful and in my opinion, totally useless junk)
Now, the problem is my kids. We have three wonderful kids, Peter, 9
; Rachel, 5 and Mark, 3.
They are three great, healthy, healthy looking, they eat well (lots of
veggies and fruits, as well as all the rest).
My mother in law has convinced my wife to have cow milk banned from
the house
(I am the only one that drinks milk in my coffee.) Soy milk ONLY is
allowed for the kids.
I have mixed feelings about this, and occasionally ""smuggle" my kids
a great bowl with cereal, fresh fruits and some good old God-sent COW
milk, thanks very much.
Otherwise, as soon as anyone of my kids reaches for the milk carton,
here comes the yell : "Do you want to get an ear infection, don't you
know that MILK can KILL you ?
I have spoken loudly against this and said that I consider it under
"Psychological child abuse", with little result.
Now, here is the twist: my wife, on suggestion from my mother in law
wants to put my oldest, Peter on a seven days juice-only fast. This in
order to "cure" and "detoxify" Peter from the "poisons" that are the
causes of his ear infections. That and the use of "fruit juices
injected via rectum" if the child is too sick that he/ she cannot eat.
Colloidal silver has been discussed for the kids too, as a form of
"cure-all" antibiotic.
At this point I got REALLY concerned, set my foot down and told my
wife that we really needed to have a serious talk about this
"alternative medicine" situation.
I consider these practices on a child to be very dangerous, and
borderline child abuse. There is NO way I will allow my kids to be
subject to the juice fast, colloidal silver or anything like that. I
beleive that children should have access to rational, responsible
health care"
You see, I am used to a different approach towards doctors. I go to
see the doctor, as needed, use some good, old common sense, and that
was all. I also happen to be a technical person, so I am used to rely
on solid, rational, logic FACTS and nothing of all this nonsense.
I am getting worried for my kids, for my wife, and also for my
in-laws.
Do you have any suggestion?
Should I talk with our pediatrician, (without my wife present) ?
One rhetorical question : How on earth can otherwise "normal" people
cave in and believe all this non-sense ?
Thanks,
Concerned father.
--------------------posted 2001-09-13 10:27:02 PST ------------
ho trovato e letto questo NG il 3d "Scorbuto e limoni: una storia
istruttiva", quasi per caso, e devo dire che e' interessante.
Permettemi un paio di osservazioni:
Xlater a grandi linee capisco la tua tesi, ma non posso condividerla,
concordo piu' con Sad Wolf e mi spiego:
(Magari voi siete li' che dite: mo' questo chi cavolo e' e da dove
spunta, questa era una conversazione 'semiprivata' ...)
Vabbe' e' la natura di Internet, che ci potete fare ...
Si, le idee e l'informazione oggi viaggiano a velocita' di rete
globale. E questo, come dice Sad Wolf, permette non solo alle perle di
viaggiare ma anche ai proverbiali porci e bufale. (Xlater , ovviamente
NON mi riferisco a te, sia chiaro.)
Io vivo da 14 anni negli USA, e qui letteralmente ogni settimana esce
la dieta, lo studio, la ricerca di turno. Ogni altra settimana si
contraddicono. Il consumatore americano e' completamente confuso,
mangia spazzatura comunque, e di tanto in tanto si rifugia in diete e
stili nutrizionali a dir poco paraddossali.
Cultura scientificha dell' Americano medio : 0.
In Italia al confronto siamo almeno a 85, su una scala 0-100.
Tutti ci campano. L' industria della nutrizione e medicina
alternativa, le case editrici sguazzano nei soldi, pesudo dottori si
fanno milionari ( in $$$) sulla pelle dei poveretti che non ci
capiscono piu' un fico secco.
La medicina ufficiale, non la tocca nessuno, orami e' insediata ed e'
tranquilla.
( Il discorso sulla sanita; americana medievale, per cortesia lo
facciamo un' altra volta che mi fa bollire il sangue. )
NESSUNO ha le PALLE quadre di dire alla gente la verita' : mangiate di
meno e muovetevi di piu'. E basta con le cioccolatine 10 volte al
giorno, ed alla Coca Cola ghiacciata 1/2 litro come COLAZIONE !!, e le
patatine ricoperte di formaggio fuso per pranzo. No, questo nessuno lo
dice (chiaramente)
Io ho avuto un' esperienza diretta nella famiglia di mia moglie.
Sua zia, per eattezza. La storia riportata qui sotto, e' vera ed
autentica in tutti in particolari.
Io stesso ho aiutato "Clint" a postare il mesaggio due anni fa. E'
TUTTO VERO. E la situazione non e' migliorata di un millimetro.
Idee e fantasie dietetiche/alimentari che si propagano incontrollate,
SONO dannose. La maggioranza di queste "nuove idee" che circolano sono
solo fantasie che non stanno ne' in cielo ne' in terra.
Io ho una nipotina americana che di 7 anni che e' sorda all'80%
perche' i genitori (papa' chiropratico) non credono nella medicina
ufficiale, dottori o antibiotici. Molto meglio un bicchiere di acqua
(LETTERALMENTE) che andare dal medico quando Rebecca, a sei mesi di
eta' ha avuto infezione delle vie respiratorie per 90 giorni
Oppue quando in 8 mesi di vita e' aumentata di solo un chilo di peso
dalla nascita.
La piccola non ha visto un medico fino all' eta' di 4 anni, quando si
sono accorti che be, .. per sentirci, forse non ci sente proprio
troopo bene....
Xlater, io alle follie che ho visto e sentito in 14 anni, perferisco
sempre la medicina ufficiale, assieme a una buoma dose di buon senso e
cultura scientifica di base.
Leggete, alcuni dettagli sono stati omessi, in quanto troppo
incredibili.
--------------------posted 2001-09-13 10:27:02 PST ------------
I need some help (or suggestions, or guidance, ANYTHING), on how to
deal with a specific family situation that is arising and is involving
my in-laws, my wife and my children.
Mary and John are my in-laws. John, now 52 years of age, discovered
one year ago that he has an incurable chronic disease.
Since that discovery, Mary, his wife, (my mother in law) has leaped
into alternative medicine, in an attempt to heal him. Now her logic,
discerning capacity and a lot of her money are gone.
I need to add at this point, that currently we live WITH my in-laws
and for the next year or so, there is almost no way the situation is
going to change anytime soon.)
Mary, my mother-in-law, first began her adventure in alternative
medicine with Dr. Norman W. Walker and his book "Colon Health Key to
Vibrant Life" advocating weekly if not daily colonics.
After that it was the turn of Dr. Wallace and his "Dead Doctors don't
lie" audio tape. Now it is Dr. Lorraine Day and her "cure all" video
tapes. Then came the "Hallelujah Diet" Recently she just started to
listen to another audio tape about "Germs do not cause any disease"
from another quack that I have yet to identify.
Personally, I cannot stand even to be in the same room when she and my
wife are listening to these tapes.
Overall, here is what she believes:
1) You just got to do frequent "colonics" aka enemas to "detoxify"
yourself
2) Drinking LOTS of water cures cancer and MOST disease
3) Doctors and modern medicine has not cured ANY disease EVER, not
even ONE
4) Milk and sugar cause AIDS and most of the disease we currently
know
5) Cooked food has ZERO nutritional value, no proteins, nothing,
nada, empty food
6) Only raw foods have nutritional values and have the "enzymes of
life" ( ?? )
7) Veggie and raw food diet cure AIDS and cancer and most of disease
as we know it
8) Fever in kids is not dangerous and one should not ever try to give
Motrin or Advil to lower fever in a child.
9) You need the high fever so it will kill all the bad germs and
viruses in you body (!!)
10) The so called fever-induced seizures are in reality always
provoked by doctors mistakes at the hospital.
11) Dialyses can be avoided by following a regime of mineral and
vitamins supplements
12) Germs/bacterias and viruses NEVER cause ANY disease.
13) The disease is INSIDE us and we start it by what we eat.
14) 25% of American couples are infertile because they do not take
minerals in their diet...
15) Kids under the age of ten are dying of heart attacks all over
America because of lack of minerals
This list is just the beginning ... Trust me people this is not a
joke.
Needless to say most of this material lack any reference list, names,
studies or any background information of sort You see, every time I
hear any of the crap above, my stomach turns.
Every time I attempt, with some solid data on hand, to debunk some of
this physco-health-terror, I am told that : "Maybe they know something
you and the doctors don't know. And: "you know, the doctors and the
pharmaceutical companies do not want people to know how to get
healthy"
No comment.
All these is coupled with a change in diet that involves the entire
family, and that is something I have to agree on. Right now we are
going toward a more vegetarian style of eating habits, and I need to
say that I do not have anything against it and wholeheartedly agree
with the need to have good healty meals, frequent
exercise and generally speaking, stay healthy and try to pass these
same habits to our kids.
(Personally I draw the line on the barely green powder, it is just
awful and in my opinion, totally useless junk)
Now, the problem is my kids. We have three wonderful kids, Peter, 9
; Rachel, 5 and Mark, 3.
They are three great, healthy, healthy looking, they eat well (lots of
veggies and fruits, as well as all the rest).
My mother in law has convinced my wife to have cow milk banned from
the house
(I am the only one that drinks milk in my coffee.) Soy milk ONLY is
allowed for the kids.
I have mixed feelings about this, and occasionally ""smuggle" my kids
a great bowl with cereal, fresh fruits and some good old God-sent COW
milk, thanks very much.
Otherwise, as soon as anyone of my kids reaches for the milk carton,
here comes the yell : "Do you want to get an ear infection, don't you
know that MILK can KILL you ?
I have spoken loudly against this and said that I consider it under
"Psychological child abuse", with little result.
Now, here is the twist: my wife, on suggestion from my mother in law
wants to put my oldest, Peter on a seven days juice-only fast. This in
order to "cure" and "detoxify" Peter from the "poisons" that are the
causes of his ear infections. That and the use of "fruit juices
injected via rectum" if the child is too sick that he/ she cannot eat.
Colloidal silver has been discussed for the kids too, as a form of
"cure-all" antibiotic.
At this point I got REALLY concerned, set my foot down and told my
wife that we really needed to have a serious talk about this
"alternative medicine" situation.
I consider these practices on a child to be very dangerous, and
borderline child abuse. There is NO way I will allow my kids to be
subject to the juice fast, colloidal silver or anything like that. I
beleive that children should have access to rational, responsible
health care"
You see, I am used to a different approach towards doctors. I go to
see the doctor, as needed, use some good, old common sense, and that
was all. I also happen to be a technical person, so I am used to rely
on solid, rational, logic FACTS and nothing of all this nonsense.
I am getting worried for my kids, for my wife, and also for my
in-laws.
Do you have any suggestion?
Should I talk with our pediatrician, (without my wife present) ?
One rhetorical question : How on earth can otherwise "normal" people
cave in and believe all this non-sense ?
Thanks,
Concerned father.
--------------------posted 2001-09-13 10:27:02 PST ------------